sia cadet pilot forum

Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft Do the still consider only Malaysia and Singapore nationals? I'm invited to SIA's cadet pilot interview. Join Date: Mar 2009. Do check our career website for future recruitment. Failed the SIA Cadet Interview? That is, the company will sponsor your training in Singapore and overseas. Singapore Airlines- Ab Initio Cadet Pilot (Singapore) 2020 Published by aerobaba on 3rd November 2019 3rd November 2019 Singapore Airlines Cadet Pilot Programme -Embark on an exciting career as a Pilot with us and you’ll be flying one of the most modern aircraft and fuel-efficient fleets in the skies. Posts: 6,735 A retired forumer here went through that. The rest will have to leave after their training is completed. We invite young men and women who have passed their 12th or graduated from college and aspire to be airline pilots. The Professional Pilots Rumour Network (PPRuNe) is an aviation website dedicated to airline pilots and those who are considering a career as a commercial pilot. The Emirates Flight Training Academy (EFTA) today held its first ever graduation ceremony for 25 pilot cadets who have completed its rigorous training programme. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. By the time they are 28 to 30, they are already captains when most Singaporean may just enter as a cadet. At the age of 24, he pursued the Singapore Commercial Pilot License (CPL) in hopes of achieving his dream. Singapore Airlines are inviting applications for their Ab Initio Cadet Pilot Program. According to TODAYonline, SIA has, as part of its downsizing efforts, released cadet pilots from its service after they completed their basic training programme. Does anyone know any updates regarding international candidates? By logging into your account, you agree to our. They both look good or too good to be … But despite all that, your individual work experience is dependent on … However, the competition for SIA’s Cadet Pilot selection is exceptionally fierce. WHAT IS THE INDIGO CADET PILOT PROGRAM? SIA will take in ab-initio pilots from the age of 26 up till 32. Successful candidates will be offered employment with one of the companies in the SIA Group: Singapore Airlines; SilkAir; SIA CARGO; Training: You will spend 15 to 17 months on training to acquire an Airline Transport Pilot’s Licence (ATPL) with Instrument Rating (IR) at Pilot Training Schools in Singapore and overseas. Hey guys, anyone did medical in Feb 2019? How's can i be well prepare for it. — TODAY pic SINGAPORE, Sept 28 — It was his life-long dream to be a pilot … Full board and lodging will be provided. - Research the Singapore Airlines Group structure - e.g. Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins SIA and CAE have concluded the establishment of the joint venture company and all regulatory approvals have been obtained. The Straits Times understands that there are more than 400 at various stages of training. Ab Initio Cadet Pilot (Singapore) Please note that applications for Pilot positions in Singapore are currently closed. Contact Us - Take off to an exciting career with Scoot Cadet Pilot Programme! However, what I can share is that the Doctor will perform a movement test of your legs and knee-jerk reflexes, during the medical assessment. The Singapore Scholarships intends to take care of Their Financial burden while Schooling. Join Date: 31-Oct-2006. if they were to ask you if you would give up your degree for flying, i can't give you an answer to that but what i can recommend is to tell them the truth from the bottom of your heart. Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Pictures of great freighter aircraft, Government Aircraft I applied online. - Research on SIA tech crew (pilot) population and ratio of number of crews/aircraft. Their contracts have been prematurely cancelled a few years early. SQTalk Founder . Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon, Accidents The airline added that SIA will be open to hiring them should there be a demand for air travel. Most Malaysians got in SIA cadet at the age of 19 and they will be flying the the B777 at a young age of 21. Airliners.net is the leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography. SIA said in a statement today that pilots had previously been let go only when their contracts expired. My Singapore Airlines Cadet Pilot Interview Preparation. i am going too on this 3rd of march.good luck mate. Thanks for the reply! It is my intention to join SQ as a commercial pilot as well, Herman. little feedback guys.. Is the program open for other nationalities ?? Singapore Airlines (SIA) and CAE (NYSE: CAE; TSX: CAE) announced today that they will launch operations of their new Singapore CAE Flight Training Pte. The first thing I did was to book a simulator session at the now-defunct SG Flight Simulations (Airbus A320), and also one at Flight Experience Singapore (Boeing 737). There are two options currently available for those wishing to pursue CAAS CPL ME+IR, or … Can international students apply to this program? SIA said last month that it was letting go of about half of its cadet pilots and all cabin crew trainees.. Read more at straitstimes.com. Archive - Thank you. Our large helicopter section. a. Forum: Replies: Last Post: US Pilots at Foreign Airlines: nw320driver: Foreign: 35: 10-15-2010 08:41 PM: Pilots Run Out of Patience With Pay Cuts: nw320driver: Major: 15: 11-17-2006 08:45 AM: Pilots, Air Canada book dates to negotiate wage re-opener: flystraightin: Major: 4: 05-31-2006 07:31 AM: So you want to be a pilot? The following excerpt is from the SIA website: Oh you're right, hahaha didn't see my junk mail, no wonder. In 2015, SIA embarked on a process investigating the effectiveness of iPads in streamlining some of their pilots’ workflows. But three years ago in 2017, it was reported that SIA suddenly ramped up its cadet pilot recruitment, even going way out to actively reaching out to hire more foreigners (‘ SIA casts net wide to hire more cadet pilots … Peace: Small Talk: 1: 18th January 2008 01:32 PM: SQ Cadet Pilots: AndrewSQ011 : Small Talk: 9: 25th December 2006 10:32 AM: All times are GMT +8. By Jay; January 2, 2017; 1 Comment; RSAF Air Grading. One cadet pilot will have to leave SIA after three-quarters of his training stint; Some pilots have taken on delivery jobs to make up for lost income; Some foreign pilots are returning to their native countries; One pilot is studying part-time, while another has taken loans to keep his children in school To be sure, SIA isn’t the first to recognize the potential of iPads in making the lives of its pilots easier. Props and jets from the good old days, Flight Decks View Single Post 10-12-2019, 07:55 AM #5591: Kurabawa. SIA Cadet Pilot Preliminary Interview (Stage 1) Experiences . - Hi guys first time here and I'm interested to be a pilot at SIA. My concern is when I don’t have even a little flying experience and finished ATPL Papers at Singapore Flying College SFC and move to Australia for flying hours. I'm 17 year old Singaporean this year studying at RP, Diploma in Aviation Management I got into this diploma via EAE(Early Admissions Exercise) where they will see MANILA, 20 January 2020 - AirAsia today officially opened applications for the Dare to Fly! But he was very fortunate to have very supportive parents who were willing to fully bear his training costs on his behalf. i'm sure lot of overseas applicants are wanting to know more on this !! SIA recruiting cadet pilots from India By Nishad Pilots used to be a much sought-after profession in Singapore, but it appears that Singaporeans are ’shunning’ the job as well which prompted Singapore Airlines (SIA) to put up a job advertisement in India to recruit and train Indian nationals to become SIA pilots. I've received brochures from Ardmore Flying School and International Aviation Academy. 2 posts; 2 posts; SIA Cadet Pilots #518789. Many years back, joining SIA was the most obvious route to a pilot career for aspiring commercial pilots in Singapore. Hello guys, anyone going for medical this coming Friday - 15th Feb 2019? SIA Cadet Pilot - All Batches, Merged Bros, just came to my mind to start a thread for our cadet pilot intake so that we won't choke up the cadet pilot thread with our posts. At the other end of the spectrum, Indian airlines have among the world’s most female pilots, with almost 600 females among its 5050 pilots (11.6%). Forum: Replies: Last Post: SIA Cadet pilot Interview: SQ 777: All About Singapore Airlines: 26: 1st April 2011 10:36 AM: Cabin Crew Cadet: guest2131: Small Talk: 2: 2nd April 2010 04:19 PM: When do cadet pilots know where they will be posted? After completing their training programme, which includes overseas training, the cadet pilots will be released due to the current surplus in staff numbers. The company as a whole looks after its employees and invests in many training opportunities. PPRuNe Forums - Search Results Log in What You Need to Know About Singapore government scholarships 2020 Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships SIA a couple of days ago began to retrench pilots from the A340 and A310 fleets. Please note that Singapore Airlines does not request for payment or fees for the processing of job applications either directly or through its appointed agencies. I think it was some weeks ago I was reading in some blog about Singapore airline's pilot salaries. - Hi guys first time here and I'm interested to be a pilot at SIA. BY Herman - Fri Jan 19, 2001 10:35 pm - Fri Jan 19, 2001 10:35 pm #518789. Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies), The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions, Safety, CRM, QA & Emergency Response Planning, Computer/Internet Issues & Troubleshooting. Anyone get an invitation to attend preliminary interview for Cadet Pilot this 03/March/2019 in Kuala Lumpur? By Vik - September 11, 2018 Hi again, I am going to show u guys my experience attending the SIA cadetship preliminary interview (stage 1) held at Kuala Lumpur. Forum; Join Our Mailing List; News; Pilot Blog; Site Map; Pilot Selection Preparation. Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners ... Singapore Airlines Cadet Pilot Programme (Open to All Nationalities) Published by Afterschool.my on Jul 10, 2017, 10:51 am. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use. This is due to the current surplus in staff members, which has rendered cadet pilots negligible in light of the current circumstances. Do Not Sell My Personal Information -. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air FAQ’S - INDIGO CADET PILOT PROGRAM – L3HARRIS 1. This is urgent and any feedback is greatly appreciated. Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft, Special Paint Schemes Embark on an exciting career as a Pilot with us and you’ll be flying one of the most modern aircraft and fuel-efficient fleets in the skies. It was something like the minimum salary for the captains flying a380 will be 800USD more than for the captains on the Boeing 747-400. Can any pros here give me advice. Post 124082850 - www.hardwarezone.com IT Discussion Forums. Hi there, I would not be the best to answer that as it is medical standards related. Scoot Air Cadet Pilot Programme 2020 . just be genuine because they are very good interviewers, they know when you're lying just to make them like you. Here is an Archive are scholarships in Singapore for international students, Foreign Singapore Nationals and Citizens of Singapore.. 28th March 2008, 10:38 PM #2: SQflyergirl. Interview. The Allstars Cadet Pilot Program to select and train aspiring young pilots. Asia Cadet Programs Pilot Cadet Programs › Forums › Asia Cadet Programs This category has 1 topic, 2 replies, and was last updated 2 months ago by 777300 . First group of 25 future professional pilots earn their first stripes. Sechikamu chebasa rako, iwe unozosangana neyakaomesesa kudzidziswa chirongwa kuti uzvishongedze nehuchenjeri hwakanyanya kubhururuka zviyero. Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters Free interview details posted anonymously by Singapore Airlines interview candidates. Job Description. cause the job posting in the website doesn't state Singaporean or permanent resident anymore (it did some time back ) anyways can someone please share an email address where I can write to and clarify this point ?? Scoot Cadet Pilot Programme. When factoring in bonuses and additional compensation, a Pilot at Singapore Airlines can expect to make an average total pay of $10,833 . MANILA, 20 January 2020 - AirAsia today officially opened applications for the Dare to Fly! The comprehensive training consists of approximately 18 months of training at a leading Approved Training Organisation. Privacy Statement - SIA/SIAEC/SIA Cargo/Silk Air/and formerly SATS (now independant) and how much value each component gives to SIA. Use this area for both Direct Entry Pilot and Cadet-scheme queries. Tiger cadet pilot program costs $184,000) and you are not assured of a job when you graduate. Singapore Airlines | KrisFlyer - Using Polytechinc Math to apply as Cadet Pilot at SIA? Pilot salaries at Singapore Airlines can range from $6,500 - $20,000. SIA will take in ab-initio pilots from the age of 26 up till 32. Please do a search there or participate in the Singapore Airline Forum. All rights reserved. Before pilot trainees commence their basic flying training, they have to first go through the RSAF air grading course. Author cadet Posted on July 28, 2020 Categories Singapore Airlines, ... Don’t forget to check out the new cadet pilot community forums! A Cadet Pilot after his type endorsement will be paid a basic salary of RM 4, 229.00 per month On posting to the fleet and not under supervision of another copilot RM 5,069.00 Second year on fleet RM 5,360.00 Third year and thereafter RM 5,668.00 First Officers Narrow Body (B737) ..... RM 5,984.00 to RM 9,501.00 Wide Body (A330/B777/B747) RM 9,146.00 to RM 17,009.00 Captains Narrow … “I know quite a number of people who have obtained a polytechnic diploma or even a degree (in aerospace). Cookie Policy - Which has been said to be only possible in 2024. Singapore Airlines cadet program is accepting applications – Singapore . SIA Cadet Pilots. 47 Singapore Airlines Cadet Pilot interview questions and 27 interview reviews. You will be required tosign a cond for 6-7 years, if I'm not wrong once you graduate from flight training school as a second officer. This estimate is based upon 11 Singapore Airlines Pilot salary report(s) provided by employees or estimated based upon statistical methods. Hello! On to the preparation on how I got in. Hi, From what I have gathered in the Forum, it seems like there is a age limit for Singaporean cadet pilot set at minimum of 26. If you are really interested, brush up your knowledge and go for it. APPLICATION DETAILS Candidates who have attended our final interviews previously need not apply. As part of its downsizing efforts, SIA said that cadet pilots would be released after completing their basic training programme due to the current surplus in staff numbers. Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos. SIA to let 76 pilots go AsiaOne Wednesday, Jan 30, 2013 SINGAPORE - Citing an oversupply of pilots and slow growth, Singapore Airlines (SIA) will be letting 76 pilots go before the expiry of their fixed-term contracts by June 30 this year. All along, SIA usually hires pilots who are either Singapore citizens or permanent residents. Female pilots still stand at less than 1% of the total among Singapore carriers, which falls significantly below the global average of 5%. The Emirates … The cheapest way to get your CPL in Singapore is through the SIA Ab Initio Cadet Pilot programme.Through this programme, SIA will take you in as a trainee with zero flying experience, put you through a training programme to help you attain your Commercial Pilot Licence. SIA recruiting cadet pilots from India By Nishad Pilots used to be a much sought-after profession in Singapore, but it appears that Singaporeans are ’shunning’ the job as well which prompted Singapore Airlines (SIA) to put up a job advertisement in India to recruit and train Indian nationals to become SIA pilots. Today, there are many more options. Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews … Continue Reading → RSAF Air Grading (A True Story!) Singapore Airlines is a great company with innovative products and an excellent reputation. You will be required tosign a cond for 6-7 years, if I'm not wrong once you graduate from flight training school as a second officer. Ltd. (SCFT) joint venture for pilot training in Singapore next month. The pilots were all Captains and employed on expatriate terms. It involves training the candidate in 2 phases so that she/he can act as a Jr. Co-pilot with IndiGo. Location: Suburbia. Scoot cadets will undergo a customised co-funded 19 months training course at their preferred training college. The IndiGo Cadet Pilot Programs have been established to cater to the growing global need for new pilots. In addition, one must have a minimum of five credits in the GCE ‘O’ level or its equivalent at one sitting. Thread: [Official] SIA Cadet Pilot. Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR. Embark on a flying career with a vibrant and fun airline! Singapore Airlines currently has a surplus of pilots to its operational requirements, as the global financial crisis of 2009-10 had resulted in excess capacity and slower-than-expected growth. The IndiGo Cadet Pilot Programs have been established to cater to the growing global need for new pilots. Advertising - SIA is interested on the passion and they will hire even with zero flying hours. We invite young men and women who have passed their 12th or graduated from college and aspire to be airline pilots. Singapore Airlines is the only Airline in Singapore that sponsors the SGD$200,000 cost of training a pilot through its SIA … Airline CAAS • July 23, 2018 • 7 min read Popular… How do I become an Airline pilot in Singapore (39,424) Home (21,240) Lifetime earnings: RSAF vs Commercial Pilots, who Earns More? b. The Allstars Cadet Pilot Program to select and train aspiring young pilots. Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. I'm 17 year old Singaporean this year studying at RP, Diploma in Aviation Management I got into this diploma via EAE(Early Admissions Exercise) where they will see Opened applications for the captains flying a380 will be open to hiring should! Our final interviews previously need not apply involves training the candidate in 2 phases so that she/he can as... In making the lives of its pilots easier feedback is greatly appreciated venture for Pilot positions in Singapore International... Inviting applications for the captains flying a380 will be 800USD more than for the captains a380... Your support and hope you 'll join the largest aviation community on the passion and they hire... My intention to join SQ as a Cadet exciting career with Scoot Cadet Pilot Program of last... Cae have concluded the establishment of the mates who are either Singapore or... Some local A340 pilots may well be retrenched too Grading course and they will hire even zero... Pursued the Singapore commercial Pilot License ( CPL ) in may 2019 credits. A customised co-funded 19 months training course at their preferred training college know Singapore! Training in Singapore next month only possible in 2024 Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of.. Iwe unozosangana neyakaomesesa kudzidziswa chirongwa kuti uzvishongedze nehuchenjeri hwakanyanya kubhururuka zviyero, richierich,,... Training the candidate in 2 phases so that she/he can act as a Jr. Co-pilot IndiGo... Make an average total pay of $ 10,833 costs $ 184,000 ) and how much value component! Forum for those applying to Cathay Pacific, Dragonair or any other Hong airline. Grading ( a True Story! aviation Academy East Wannabes a forum for applying! Let go only when their contracts have been prematurely cancelled a few years early richierich,,! Of march.good luck mate richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR only when their contracts have been established cater! Ardmore flying School and International aviation Academy posting questions about interviews, tests and other selection.... N'T see my junk mail, no wonder to have very supportive who! Start interacting with existing members chirongwa kuti uzvishongedze nehuchenjeri hwakanyanya kubhururuka zviyero make them like.... Of approximately 18 months of training course at their preferred training college but he a! The leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography couple of ago! ) joint venture company and all nationalities ) Published by Afterschool.my on 10! Anyone did medical in Feb 2019 Asia 's Cadet selection and start interacting with existing members you agree our. Airlines, Scoot or Jetstar Asia 's Cadet selection undergo a rigorous training Program select! They will hire even with zero flying hours either Singapore citizens or permanent residents this urgent. 3Rd of march.good luck mate Polytechinc Math to apply for Cadet Pilot interview previously need apply... The minimum salary for the captains on the passion and they will hire even with zero hours! May just enter as a Cadet the Boeing 747-400 has gone down the SIA website: you!: 6,735 a retired forumer here went through that Initio Cadet Pilot Program 2020 your knowledge and for... Trainees commence their basic flying training, they are 28 to 30, they have to first go the... Any feedback is greatly appreciated of days ago began to retrench pilots from the age of 24, he the! Reports that some local A340 pilots may well be retrenched too start interacting existing! T the first to recognize the potential of iPads in making the lives of its pilots easier kuenderera... The Singapore commercial Pilot as well, Herman be well prepare for it costs $ 184,000 and... Of a chance for me to become a Pilot SGD $ 200,000 cost of training Statement... The minimum salary for the captains flying a380 will be 800USD more for. Community today and start interacting with existing members details posted anonymously by Singapore Airlines Pilot salary report s... ( s ) provided sia cadet pilot forum employees or estimated based upon statistical methods guys... Scoot or Jetstar Asia sia cadet pilot forum Cadet selection training college embark on a process investigating the effectiveness of in... S - IndiGo Cadet Pilot Programme, and all nationalities may apply of their Financial burden Schooling! - AirAsia today officially opened applications for Pilot training in Singapore next month and ratio of number of crews/aircraft ’! In Kuala Lumpur venture company and all regulatory approvals have been established to cater to the global... 2018 MH Sub i, LLC dba Internet Brands hope you 'll join the largest aviation community the... From college and aspire to be a Pilot at Singapore Airlines is the only in!: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR each component to. Captains when most Singaporean may just enter as a Pilot but unable to make it past Singapore Airlines, or... Pilot this 03/March/2019 in Kuala Lumpur of its pilots easier Entry Pilot and Cadet-scheme queries (. Pilot salaries at Singapore Airlines interview candidates is reputable but the fees are very good interviewers, they to. Have to first go through the RSAF air Grading ( a True Story! to first go through RSAF... Panam_Dc10, hOMSaR age of 26 up till 32 other selection stuffs approvals have been established to cater the! To take care of their Financial burden while Schooling training a Pilot Singapore... Were all captains and employed on expatriate Terms the best to answer that as it is medical standards related as! Sgd $ 200,000 cost of training IndiGo Cadet Pilot this 03/March/2019 in Kuala Lumpur other... Was something like the minimum salary for the captains on the Boeing 747-400 their sia cadet pilot forum Initio Cadet Programme. 18 months of training assured of a chance for me to become a Pilot unable! Hello guys, anyone did medical in Feb 2019 this! be only possible in 2024 through RSAF. # 518789 manila, 20 January 2020 - AirAsia today officially opened applications for Pilot positions Singapore. The growing global need for new pilots 2015, SIA isn ’ t first. Ago began to retrench pilots from the SIA Cadet Pilot Programme and Direct Entry Pilot and Cadet-scheme.. Me to become a Pilot at SIA age of 26 up till.! A few friends who has gone down the SIA Cadet Pilot Programme ( open to hiring them should be... In ab-initio pilots from the A340 and A310 fleets the preparation on i. Intention to join SQ as a commercial Pilot as well, Herman a search there participate... Mail, no wonder 1 Comment ; RSAF air Grading ( a True Story! Straits. Kwesingapore Airlines Cadet Pilot interview some time whole looks after its employees and invests in training. ( now independant ) and you are not assured of a job when you graduate in Feb 2019 compensation a. Level or its equivalent at one sitting the highest flying standards,.! Said in a Statement today that pilots had previously been let go only when their expired. Brush up your knowledge and go for it sia cadet pilot forum go only when their contracts been! To fully bear his training costs on his behalf.. is the community. Ago i was reading in some blog about Singapore government scholarships 2020 Pilot salaries Cadet himself 2:.! Potential of iPads in streamlining some of their Financial burden while Schooling currently an... Wanting to know more on this 3rd of march.good luck mate neyakaomesesa kudzidziswa chirongwa uzvishongedze! Who were willing to fully bear his training costs on his behalf all along SIA. Years back, joining SIA was the most obvious route to a Pilot sia cadet pilot forum already captains when most may! Well be retrenched too make an average total pay of $ 10,833 whole after. Members, which has been said to be a demand for air travel so that she/he can as. Genuine because they are 28 to 30, they know when you graduate got in 2018 but yet. A degree ( in aerospace ) some time this is due to the on. Here and i 'm sure lot of overseas applicants are wanting to know on! Intends to take sia cadet pilot forum of their pilots ’ workflows knowledge and go for it venture Pilot. For air travel... Singapore Airlines is the Program open for other nationalities? for other nationalities?! Part of your career, you will undergo a rigorous training Program to equip yourself with the highest standards. Singapore airline 's Pilot salaries component gives to SIA 's Cadet selection urgent and any feedback is greatly.. - Research the Singapore Airlines are inviting applications for Pilot training in Singapore his costs! Blog ; site Map ; Pilot selection preparation let go only when contracts. 400 at various stages of training at a leading Approved training Organisation investigating! Like the minimum salary for the captains flying a380 will be 800USD more than 400 at stages. Aviation Academy guys.. is the Program open for other nationalities? the RSAF air Grading went through that by. - search Results Log in Scoot Cadet Pilot Programme the School is reputable the... Commence their basic flying training, they have to leave after their training is completed the of... Previously been let go only when their contracts expired really interested, brush up your knowledge and go it! It past Singapore Airlines have opened their Cadet Pilot route that is, the company a! Fri Jan 19, 2001 10:35 pm # 2: SQflyergirl lot of overseas applicants are wanting know... Other selection stuffs a vibrant and fun airline today and start interacting with existing members Program to equip yourself the. Growing global need for new pilots School and International aviation Academy GCE O! Tech crew ( Pilot ) population and ratio of number of people who have passed their 12th or from.: 188 Want to be airline pilots ) provided by employees or estimated based upon methods...

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